Ep. 2

[00:00:00] sam: I love the fact that I know my body really, really well, and the way that I've, I suppose, got body positivity is through fashion, because obviously not everything's gonna fit me and I can't be in denial about that, like, That, you know, I've got a curved spine, so I can't wear things with zips. Coming to terms with my body and my scars and my curved bones and my short stature fashion made me fall in love with my body.

[00:00:40] poppy: Drop for euphemisms. Please call me disabled. A. Podcast from me, poppy Field.

[00:00:52] I know how complicated our relationship with disability can be. Since my childhood, I've had a rollercoaster of experiences with my disabled identity, living a chronic illness. Chronic pain, neurodivergency, and in particular inaccessibility. In this series, I'm chatting with various guests about their journey of coming to identify as disabled. And all the amazing and difficult in-betweens that come with it. In this episode, I'm excited to have on Samantha Renke. Sam is an actress, presenter, and disability rights campaigner who made number three in the Shaw Trust Power 100 list of 2020, the UK's most influential list of disabled people. Sam's new book, you are the best thing since sliced bread is published by Penguin Books Happy Place in Print. She's a trustee of the Brittle Bone Society, the condition she also has herself. Which is a rare genetic condition resulting in fragile bones, which break easily. We first met at Graduate Fashion Week 2018, at a catwalk show whilst I was doing my fashion degree.

[00:02:16] We both have a huge love for accessible fashion. When I met her. I had just come into my disabled identity and getting to know her was a huge breakthrough moment for me. Sam had an influence on my disabled identity, and I just knew that I had to have her on this podcast.

[00:02:39] I'm just gonna start, I'm gonna go right into it. Let's rewind. When did you first call yourself disabled, and what did that journey look like?

[00:02:47] sam: Yeah, so I was actually born in Germany. My mom is German. My dad was British. They met when he was in the army and so forth. And my sister, older sister is non-disabled, and I was a complete shock to my family.

I was not diagnosed with my disability, which is osteogenesis imperfecta, brittle bones, until my birth. And as you can imagine, everyone had had their Debbie Downer pills. You know, it was like, oh, it's such a shame. And I think my mom described my birth as more of a bereavement than a celebration. Like it really saddened me cuz she said, oh, people wouldn't even come and visit her in hospital cuz they didn't know what to say.

[00:03:22] Ugh, angers me. You know? There was no eureka moment. I physically look different than my peers. I couldn't walk. I was in a pram. I had special alterations at home and so forth. So there was no like, Oh, am I disabled? I always bloody knew. And I always quite liked it. I always liked the fact that I got free stuff, that I got positive attention.

[00:03:44] Although at the time, you know, I, I obviously didn't realize that that kind of, oh, bless her, was patronizing. I kind of just liked it cuz it meant that, you know, when I went to a car boot, people would give me like free toys and I totally played up to my disability identity as a child, and I guess it's been my thirties that I've struggled more with finding my place in the world and, um, understanding that my disability identity is something to be mocked or disregarded or dehumanized. But I find there's this juxta position of being a disabled child and being spoiled and being the center of attention and being, you know, on children in need and all this kind of like, oh, isn't, you know, I'll thank you and let's give you this and let's turn you into inspiration porn.

And then my twenties was just like spent partying and in a absolute haze of been a real rebel and not really taking much notice of anyone outside of my, my party friends. Mm-hmm. . 

[00:04:52] poppy: Umhm. And how do you feel about your identity now?

[00:04:54] sam: And now I'm like, what I would call a adult and a cat mom, which I [00:05:00] love, and someone who is very career orientated and someone who feels much more comfortable in my, with my body and who I am in that respect and, and setting boundaries. Yet I feel. The most vulnerable now, and I feel the most scared now being in my thirties because, and I think perhaps the pandemic was a triggering point for me because I saw the harshness of the world and I saw for the first time how people treated disabled people or get, or didn't really give a shit about disabled people.

And I feel sometimes I've just, I've been not given the right tools to cope with that, and I'm, I'm sure many disabled people can exper- you know, feel the same. Put on a pedestal as a child, I was, you know, the center of attention. I had a codependent relationship. And then all of a sudden when you try and improve your circumstance and you're like, you know, I wanna be more independent.

I wanna take more responsibility for who I am and so forth and go out and grab the world on the opportunities that are afforded to me and really try my hardest. It feels like it's a very isolating and lonely space to be because now all of a sudden you are definitely feeding into a, a narrative that is harmful.

So you are. Either a drain on society, a burden to your friends or family, and I think that gets harder as you get older. You know, a lot of my friends now have children and other responsibilities, and this is not, this is not an attack on anybody, but I need someone to help me physically get around. That gets harder and harder when you get older because people don't have the time.

Poppy: Mm-hmm.

Sam: I met a friend recently. I've not seen him. He was one of my party friends. I've not seen him for a while, and at the time I just, you know, not longer had my power wheelchair. And the first thing that they, he said to me was, oh, great, you are in that chair. That means I don't need to push your wheelchair.

[0Your other wheelchair, the manual one. And you know he said it kind of jokingly, but I thought that just encapsulates everything that I feel as a disabled person is that there's, you are damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. And this is why I withdraw and don't actually always ask for my needs.

To be met because I, I am always made to feel whether it's conscious or unconscious, like a burden. And I think that has really impacted on my disability identity and that's what's chipped away at my identity over the years. You know, from that innate confident little girl who really enjoyed being unique and really enjoyed the fact that she wasn't a sheep and that, you know, she got to go to hospital and have ice cream and jelly and faffing around her.

[00:07:44] To over the years having family, friends, teachers chip away and say how my disability, not me, my disability, has impacted their life. And, um, that can be very, very difficult to find, you know, to maintain that pride in your identity. But of course, I, I definitely transcribe to the social model of disability, which says, you know, disabilities are social constructs and so forth and so on.

[00:08:11] Um, and I think I can't change how people view me. And my disability, but I'm going to let go of any feelings of being a burden or, yeah. I 

[00:08:21] poppy: Yeah. I think that's actually so powerful because at the end of the day, like people are gonna decide what they think about you. And from a stereotype of disability that is not accurate.

It's not your experience and you can't control that. And it's so painful to like realize that cuz it is your loved ones, it's your friends and family too, but there's only so much you can do. Right?

Sam: Yeah.

[00:08:46] Poppy: I wanted to touch on the, the concept of, how when you're a disabled child, how looked after you are and how you're given resources and tools. But then I feel like the moment you turn 18, the moment you want to be part of society and, and you know, not be a burden on society, I guess, cuz you wanna make your own money, you wanna do as much as you can for the world.

[00:09:04] It's, the rug is taken out from you. So many funds and programs, they stop at 18, and there's no mental health help for that either cuz that is such a traumatic thing to experience, like you said. Gosh, yeah, I've been through it myself, so I get it. But , it's the rush to get in a diagnosis before you turn 18 that I relate to a lot too. 

[00:09:25] Sam: I know a lot of people. Be like, well, you have a welfare system. You, you know, have it better than most countries. And I, I hate that compar comparison as well. It's like, well, uh, I'm not comparing myself to any other country cause I live in this country. I am, I, I have the right to be here.

[00:09:39] You know, so I'm not gonna feel grateful that I live in a country that has a welfare system, like just sod off.

Poppy: Mm-hmm.

Sam: For me, you know, I was given in. Dla, so disability living allowance. And then of course when that turned to pick, then that got taken away from me. And even like now, you know, I'm still on a form of benefit.

[00:09:56] I still only work 16 hours a week, which is, you know, great for me as a freelancer because it coincides with the freelancer life. But it also allows me to look after my, my. body a bit more and you know, take time off and so forth. But even that, you know, I'm on a form of benefit, but I still have to pay close to 600 pound a month towards care, you know?

[00:10:17] (Poppy: Mm-hmm)

Sam: and this is why I hammer on so much about like how I hate inspiration porn, and I know that is quite divisive as well, because, Some disabled people might hate their disability, body or identity and you know, might have had an accident and now are a wheelchair user and all they dream of is not being a wheelchair user.

[00:10:34] I am not disputing that, but there's a lot of disabled people, myself included, that actually say, well, so toxic. And it's so harmful to push disabled people into overcoming their barriers and disability, even the language that we use. You know, like saying, oh you're so brave, you're so this. Well what if I don't wanna be brave? (Poppy: Mhmm)

[00:10:53] What if I wanna say it's hard freaking work and I'm struggling and I'm doing my best in this situation, but I don't think we're often afforded to do that. So it is a real misconception. I've come very close in recent years just to be like, I would rather give it all up and just have an easy life and be on benefits.

[00:11:12] And people can't, when I say that they don't believe me. I'm like, well, well you tell me. If getting up every day, not only thinking about physical and mental strain on your body, dealing with caregivers that don't really give. A shit about you dealing with a local authority that doesn't really give a shit about you dealing with your working environment on the whole way. You still have to constantly educate and train people. Would you not at times think, do you know what? I might as well just go on the doll.  

[00:11:41] poppy: Um, Absolutely. laugh

Sam: would people do it?

Poppy: Yeah. One thing I will mention is that I'm very hard on calling benefits entitlements because it is an entitlement, a disabled person living in the uk I am entitled to this. I'm a citizen.

Sam: Mm-hmm.

Poppy: obviously, like I, I have pay tax before, but even if I haven’t paid tax before, I'm entitled to it.

Sam: Yeah.

Poppy: The health of society is based on how we treat hose who need entitlements most. I think if people are calling us benefit frauds and benefit scammers, it's a reflection on how society is right now and it's horrible and it's so stressful to live in.

[00:12:14] I completely agree, cuz why are we, why are we waking up every day to prove a point? To make money and it's making money to survive, for sure. Sam: Mm-hmm.

Poppy: but it is exhausting . It's, it's exhausting. I completely get it. And, uh, people see our achievements and everything, but they don't see like the, the physical pain that goes alongside it.

[00:12:32] Sam: Mm-hmm.

Poppy: because it's painful. waking up every day too. Yeah. Completely get it. Considering recent years where I think the disabled community's morale is at, at an all time low. I think seeing the world around us, it's really hard to continue that motivation to like, frankly give a shit. about being a person, like just wanting to give in.

[00:12:51] I also just wanted to mention, cuz we were talking about costs, and I think it was scope's figure was for disabled people, average life costs 583 pounds [00:13:00] more for disabled people.

Sam: Mm-hmm.

Poppy: monthly was that? 

[00:13:02] sam: Yeah. And that's on average. That's on, that's like the baseline, isn't it, really? 

[00:13:06] poppy: And like, I don't know about you, but my, uh, entitlements do not cover that.

[00:13:11] So No, it, and it's so hard. So we really are working just to meet those extra costs every month.

Sam: Mm-hmm.

Poppy: And it's exhausting. Do you have like a fluid experience with your disabled identity still? Or is it, what do you think? 

[00:13:22] Sam: Yeah, I think, um, I, I, I see my pre-campaigner life and my post-campaigner life very differently, and I don't know which one I prefer.

Um, so let me explain that. Like, so before I became a trustee for the Brittle Bone Society and had my first, I suppose, um, experience of all the disabled people on a, on a, on a level that was, you know, kind of a big level. My life seemed simpler because I wouldn't challenge when I was discriminated against or faced ableism.

I wasn't really aware of it, you know? Uh, or if I did, it didn't, it didn't [00:14:00] feel like it impacted me, or I didn't feel like I should be angry about things. So like, you know, if I were to go somewhere and the lift was broken, I'd be disappointed, but I'd just like go, well, let's go somewhere else. Um, whereas now I'm like, well, no.

[00:14:14] Why is the lift broken? Rawwr. And I, you know, like that. and, and I think, so. My life is much more complicated now, but I think nothing in life worth having is easy. And you, you know, you, you know, I don't regret, I don't regret, you know, being more aware of what my rights are and what I should expect out of my life.

[00:14:38] I don't regret that. But when I have my moments of absolute exhaustion and having to justify. My rights. Then I do think back to my more kind of calmer ignorance. Ignorance is bliss. That's where that comes from. So it's difficult. Sometimes I do kind of think, should I reign it in a little bit? Should I just be passive?

But no, I think I'm too far gone now to be that person. 

[00:15:07] poppy: Um, you mentioning that nothing worth having is easy. I mean, I wish it wasn't the case, but I feel like I'm also very passive when I ex- in my experience in accessibility, even though I'm very loud on social media, I am someone who sort of goes in on themselves, um, depending on who I'm with, obviously.

[00:15:22] But if I'm by myself, I think that's such a good little thing gonna hold in the back of my head now, where it's just like Sam said, nothing easy is worth having. Now go and go and get that thing that you need. No, I, I think that's, such good advice, cuz even I need to hear it. laughter

[00:15:38] Sam: so. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't, look, don't get me wrong, I don't always, you know, depending on exactly like you said

Poppy: mm-hmm.

[00:15:44] Sam: depending on how I feel myself, depending on how you know who I'm with or where I'm at, then it, you know, that depends how, how, how loudly I shout and, but I definitely am proud. who I am now. It's harder work , but I'm definitely proud of, of that, the person I am because I, even that five year old Samantha, and I write this in the book in my first opening chapter.

[00:16:10] You know, I knew I was going to be somebody I knew I was gonna help shape the world in a positive way. And, um, I need to bear that in mind every time that I feel deflated or I feel like, you know, it's just a lot to, to take on. 

[00:16:26] poppy: One thing I will mention is that you can't shape the world in a positive way if you're not looking after yourself first.

Sam: Absolutely.

Poppy: If you're not meeting your own needs. So just a note for you, but also anyone listening cause I know I need to hear myself all the time.

(lofi music)

[00:16:48] Poppy: I wanted to dive into accessibility and sort of the tools that you first used and how that made you feel like, have you used mobility aids and how do you feel about 'em now? 

[00:16:58] Sam: So I think the biggest one [00:17:00] for me was my complete rejection of, um, a power wheelchair. So I am predominantly a manual wheelchair user, and one of the reasons why I didn't for a very, very long time, did not entertain having a, a power chair, was because of the complete ignorance and response I would get from my non-disabled peers. For me, getting a power, a power chair, so the response normally would be all the time. All the time when I used to be in social settings.

[00:17:31] Why haven't you got one of them power chairs? And it was, it was as though, going back to that comment that my friend made, you know, it was like, they used to go. Surely if you've got a power chest, uh, it would be easier, like the world would become more accessible to you. And that used to drive me absolutely insane.

[00:17:50] And I was quite, I'm quite a stubborn person. Something that I'm definitely kind of, you know, as I've gotten older, I'm less stubborn. But in my like late teens, early [00:18:00] twenties, I was like, screw you. Screw you for thinking that just because I'd get a power wheelchair, my life would be miraculously changed.

And I used to say to them, like, particularly like my friends I used to go clubbing with, I said, you remember the other night when we went to X bar or whatever? And there was two steps, and you picked up my manual chair with me in it, and you got me up the two steps. I said, how would you think that would, that scenario would play out in a two ton fracking. [00:18:28] Power chair, like you

Poppy: absolutely

Sam: tell, like, tell me. And they were all like, oh, yeah, I never thought of that. And that's just to really, really infuriate me because again, the underlying reason why people would say this to me was like, I don't really, I, I get, get a bit bored of having to think about your needs when we're out.

[00:18:45] I'm get a bit like tired of having to push your wheelchair, you know? (Poppy: Mm-hmm) And so for a, again, so I like shot myself in my own foot because, you know, I now have a power chair. And I'm very lucky in the sense of I've got both so I can switch between the two. Both of them have pros and cons. Is my life easier In some areas, yes.

[00:19:05] But has it solved all the barriers that I face as a physically disabled woman? Absolutely. Bloody not. Sometimes actually, when I'm out and about in my power chair, there are things that I totally can't do even simple things like I can't actually reach the bag that's on the back of my, my power chair. So when I'm out and about, I have to ask everyone, you know, and, and be that vulnerable to get things outta my bag or put, put shopping in my bag.

[00:19:29] (Poppy: Mm-hmm.) and in some ways that actually. Is a step backwards in my kind of autonomy.

[00:19:36] poppy: I completely agree. I think also the way that they're talking about why haven't you got an electric wheelchair? Like it doesn't cost more than a luxury car to have one. Yeah. Speaks volumes. Cause it wouldn't, the NHS isn't just giving them out

[00:19:48] Like have a chair. Have a chair, you know? Um, gosh, that's so frustrating. You mentioned your bag, which. I studied adaptive fashion when I was at university and when you made your accessible bag, I loved it. I dunno how accessible you found it personally, but I was wondering if you would wanted to touch on that briefly cuz I thought it was so cool.

[00:20:07] sam: Yeah, so I actually collaborated with a company called Mia Tui and they, they had a bag that was primarily, I think designed for push chairs. So they had like a bag that had, um, clips on so that you could hang over, you know, a push chair and it could also be used for a manual chair. And they sent me, they said, would you like to have a free sample?

[00:20:30] So they sent me one of the bags and I just messaged 'em back and I said, I think it's great. I think that's wonderful that you're thinking about, you know, the purple pound, so on and so on. Um, but I could absolutely, you know, collab with you and make a few more tweaks.

Poppy: Good for you.

Sam: Thinking about, what other reasonable adjustments I suppose could be made on the bag to assist my other fellow, um, deaf, disabled and neurodivergent individuals and friends.

[00:20:52] So we kind of collaborated together to create the Samantha bag. So the, and then the thing was, the, the, what I liked about it was it was, you know, if I [00:21:00] hadn't of introduced the bag as a bag designed for disabled people, you would never have known the difference. Like, you know, you wouldn't have known the difference.

[00:21:07] And I think that is something. Talk a lot about with my, when I do consultancy, you know, it's like if you create a more inclusive world, it's not just benefiting a small number of individuals, it benefits the wider society. That's what I wanted the Samantha bag to be. Now I think the problem is when you do a collaboration like that with a company that's already established, you can have your own input to a certain degree.

[00:21:29] But you know, I can't expect a company to, to invest so much in creating X, Y, and Z. So I think it was a learning curve for me. Working with a company like that probably wasn't the best learning curve because we didn't actually have a proper contract, so I didn't actually gain anything from it other than having my name on a bag.

[00:21:49] And that's fine. You know, you, you, you learn as you go along. But I, it was great because it made me think about, other needs and other disabled people, you know, and not just my own needs. And what would be practical for me as a, as a wheelchair user, there is a great launchpad into the world of fashion, is that fashion has been played a really positive part of my life.

[00:22:10] And also I think having a body that is visibly different. I love the fact that I know my body really, really well and the way that I've. I suppose got body positivity is through fashion because obviously not everything's gonna fit me and I can't be in denial about that. Like, you know, I've got a curved spine, so I can't wear things with zips.

[00:22:30] I can't, you know, so how, for me, coming to terms with my body and my scars and my curved bones and my short stature, fashion was a way of me, not hiding away from my body being like, okay, this is the body I've got. I love fashion, so what am I gonna do about it? I am gonna look in the mirror. I'm gonna look when I'm naked and I'm gonna be like, look, okay.

[00:22:52] That shoulder's lower than that shoulder, that I'm shorter than that. Sh you know, fashion made me fall in love with my body. So I, working with Mia Tub uh, on the Samantha bag was just a really nice. A nice way to kind of do a nod towards my relationship with the, with the fashion world I suppose. 

[00:23:11] poppy: Definitely. And I think it was really important at the time, uh, giving accessible fashion and adaptive fashion. This was, I think 2018. 2019. Mm-hmm. Um, it, it really was crickets out there. It's, it's obviously improved a lot now, but back then, oh my gosh, there was nothing. And it really, it just goes to show that the small steps, they mean a lot. I mean, it doesn't solve every issue ever. And I think most accessibility never will.

[00:23:35] but it, at the time, I think it was such a good springboard for not just you, but many other fashion designers who wanted to go into accessible design. So I really admire it and I I love your work. I, I'm glad you did it. And also relate so hard to the using fashion to love your body. (Sam: Mm-hmm)

I think there's, It's taking ownership of your body when it's been medicalized so much.

(lofi music)

[00:24:05] Poppy: from what we've talked about, it sounds like your journey of accepting access tools and mobility aids was more about the people around you accepting it. 

[00:24:14] Sam: A lot of my success has been attributed to wanting to prove the world wrong, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing because it really drove me to kind of be like, screw you.

I can do it. But like I said earlier, I've now come to a place where I'm like, I'm tired of being that Samantha. Like that Samantha can be brought out now and again, but you know, she's not good for the soul because. She will do things constantly at the mercy of what other people want or expect or, you know, think about me.

But I think, you know, I, I really have relinquished in the past few years that pressure on myself, and I've just been a bit like, do you know what? If I wanna have a power wheelchair, even though people are still ignorant towards it, you know, I'll get a power wheelchair. (Poppy: Mm-hmm) or I've been given the opportunity to, to get a power wheelchair, so I'll take it.

[00:25:04] Even with like having a caregiver, I dunno how, I don't like that word I call PA. You know, even that, that was like a big step for me. Even if you don't get the right support, I still see a positive correlation between my ability to work more. Like my, my company and my work side of things have definitely improved since I've said, look, yes, I will get a PA.

[00:25:29] You know, so, and for a long time I didn't want to receive that help because I didn't want to project onto the world a Samantha that was incapable or perhaps fed into a stereotypical disabled person that was very vulnerable and needed so much support and a lot of, a lot of my decisions. went down to, you know, I wanted to have a boyfriend and I want, and I thought that if, you know, if I became more non-disabled, whatever that even means.

[00:25:58] I know it's, it all sounds stupid now, doesn't it? But at the time it was very real and it was very, you know, important to me. But I did a lot of it and I sacrificed a lot and I struggled a lot and I suffered in silence a lot because I was like, oh, I. You know, I want a boyfriend and if I acted a certain way, then I'd be more appealing.

And the thing is, I still am, I'm still struggling dating, I still get a lot of rejection and a lot of like douche bags, I think, I dunno who he was. There was a young Instagramer, forgive me, I don't know her name, but she posted the other day and, and she really resonated with me cuz she went. She went, no matter how I dress or how I do my hair or whatever, people are still going to unfortunately see my disability over everything.

[00:26:42] And I just sat there, even though I'm, I must be at least 10 years older than her. And I was like, wow. I wish I kind of had the epiphany at her age, because it's true by a lot of the things that I've done, like saying yes to stuff. Me wanting to be on tv, if I'm completely honest. It was predominantly because I was like, I want it to be more sexy.

[00:27:00] I wanted guys to find me more attractive and find me more appealing because I was successful. And actually it's gone the other way because a lot of guys are threatened by an independent woman. So there you go. They irony there at the heart of it. Yes, I am a performer, I am a people person. I like people and I like communicating and I like being on stage, but I am most happy when I'm sat at home watching Buffy the vampire layer eating pasta.

[00:27:24] poppy: I relate so hard. I think that journey of like growing up as a disabled child, and then the response to that is just hyper independence, like hyper perving your point, hyper like, oh, I'm not like that. Like going against like almost like fully into the trap of like not being yourself that you prove to others that you are not disabled, and it's just, oh, it's such a spiral. And going back on your point of like, oh, I wish I learned that when I was younger. I, I feel like we, I mean, I'm a bit younger than you. We didn't have that luxury of social media when it was like guiding us as much. I feel like

Sam: that's true

Poppy: when you were younger.

[00:27:57] Sam: That's that's true.

Poppy: And it was easier to sort of fall into those traps when you're a lot more isolated and, it is hard when you're surrounded by people who don't get it as well, and you can't share ideas like how we're sharing ideas now. It's just so hard.

[00:28:30] Poppy: in five years time, what would you want a more accessible and inclusive society and mindset of individuals to look like?

[00:28:36] sam: I would like to see more non-disabled people acknowledging their able enabled privilege and not, and I always say like leaving their ego at the door. I think ego gets in the way of a lot of things, not just to do with disability, just no one likes to be told that they are not doing the right thing. And, um, I want people to appreciate that when disabled people actually say this is not right. Like, you know, the, the, at the moment, you know, a lot of activists are very vocal on flying and the fact that you can't fly independently and so forth. And, um, a lot of non-disabled people just don't see that as a privilege.

[00:29:23] And so, I guess enabled privilege. Yeah, that's what I would like.

[00:29:28] poppy: No, that makes perfect sense. They just don't understand. They're like, oh, you don't need to fly anyway. (Sam: Mm-hm), you're disabled. Why do you need to fly? That kind of thing. Mm-hmm. Okay, so onto closings and takeaways. The two closing thoughts that I wanted to ask you was what would you be your message for disabled listeners and what would be your message for non-disabled listeners who want to learn more?

[00:29:46] sam: to my non-disabled listeners, leave your ego at the door and understand that, you know, allyship is a journey, not a destination. And I suppose to my disabled friends recognize that we all have privilege even if we have a disability. And I would like my disabled friends to perhaps, you know, not to, not to dispute that we all have our barriers, but actually to be be the voice for other disabled people a little bit more.

That's what I would love. To see like, so when, whenever I'm talking to broadcasters and whenever I'm like, you know, talking about inclusion on television, I do challenge people in, you know, it might not, people might not be aware because I do a lot of things behind the scene, but you know, I. I say to them, but you know, where are my blind presenters?

[00:30:38] Where are my presenters with feeding tubes? Disability is not just, you know, the pretty versions of disability, so, so I would want my disabled peers, and I know we're already expected to do a lot, but it would be great just to acknowledge that the barriers we all face are very different, and perhaps if we are not vocal on it, we are doing a disservice to other disabled people.

[00:31:02

[00:31:03] poppy: No, I love that. I completely agree. I feel like it's all the same battle that we're fighting and it's just looking out for each other is so, so important. Um, Thank you, Samantha. I really, really appreciate it. I will let you go. So Lola can be tendered too. . 

[00:31:17] sam: Oh, I love her so much.

[00:31:17] poppy: She, she seems adorable. . 

[00:31:21] sam: Thank you for having me.

[00:31:23]Poppy: Absolutely. 

[00:31:24] poppy: Like it is kind of like a, um, what's it called? A full circle moment to have you here where like you're on the start of my journey and now you sort of, yay. Thank you. And I hope you find yourself a bit more over the next few years. Cause I know that pain. Yeah. 

[00:31:38] sam: And it, but it's a nice journey to be on and I, I, I'm very grateful and I recognise my own privilege in the sense that I am getting external help. So it's a, a nice place to be in.

[00:31:55] poppy: Thank you for listening. And do check out Sam's book, you are the best thing since sliced bread.

[00:32:04] Call me Disabled, produced by me, poppy Field, and Eliza Lomas. Sound designed by Elle Chant, illustration by Hatiye Garip, a collaboration with acas amplifier. CC Co and Crack Magazine.

[00:32:25] Keep up to date with the next episode of Call Me Disabled by following our Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and find us at call me disabled dot com